Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

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c13pep
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Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:08 am

Following my earlier post on brake bleeding I have now made a schedule of work to be done over and above the normal `recommissioning` work for my RT which has been stood for 5 years. The only issue is the brake failure light flashing like an indicator even though the brakes appear to work, although I have yet to ride the bike, my issue is do I perform a servo-ectomy or try and diagnose the problem. A full fluid change in the system would be my first option but having read the historical posts on the ABS system does not fill me with optimism and may make the fluid change a waste of time with the ABS still fitted Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated .
CHRIS

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:35 pm

Brain failure and old age seem to be conspiring against me as now begun to replace rear disc and noticed there`s no ABS ring [-X fitted for some reason so will now have to do a minute inspection of the whole bike to see if anything else is missing!!! I would assume that without the ABS ring the unit will react in some way and show a fault.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:52 pm

Isn't the REAR ABS ring fitted between the rear disk and the Final Drive on the RH side the same as the R1100RT?

Look at where the rear ABS sensor is mounted on the RH side of the Final Drive just below the rear brake caliper.
The sensor goes through the Final Drive casing to read the rear ABS ring mounted on the INSIDE (RH) face of the disk - the ring can be seen from the rear of the bike looking forwards between the disk and the Final Drive.

See the following link 'ABS Faults' by Anton Largiader - you have iABS on your 2004 R1150RT:
http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html

Determine what iABS Fault Code is being displayed.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 pm

Yes Ced your right but I hadn`t noticed it was missing until I began to remove the disc so I need to source an ABS ring and fit it before I can work out whether the ABS system is faulty or not. I can`t fathom out why someone would remove the ABS ring and then not replace it especially as the disc is well worn. Meanwhile I can focus on the engine service and a full clean out of the throttle bodies etc. now that I have removed all the old fuel from the tank. No doubt I will be looking for answers to other problems that may be lurking on this bike.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:03 pm

See the RealOEM Parts Fiche here (Item 12):
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpa ... Id=34_1159

Put the BMW Part Number (no spaces) into the Search Box on the Motorworks website and see what comes up new/used.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:00 pm

I have managed to source one thro` a friend of my son in laws from a wheel that needed refurbing and had been replaced. Shame I didn`t know earlier as he said I could have the disc as well but too late I already have one on order, sods law strikes again.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Mike D » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:17 pm

It hasn't already had an ABSectomy performed has it?

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:25 pm

It looks to have all the ABS system connected and it performs its checks when I turn the key, unfortunately it`s not rideable at the moment so don`t know if it`s fully functional. I am working towards getting the engine fully serviced and fired up so I can at least move it under its own steam and then see if the brake failure light goes out, if not then I will probably remove the ABS unit.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Mike D » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:04 am

If you can get access to a GS-911 you can run a fault code check with that, clear the faults and see if any return.

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:11 pm

I have to admit my ignorance but what is a GS-911
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Mike D » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:54 pm


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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby george baker » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Hi
where are you based c13pep? If you put it in your profile someone local will know you have a need

Search the site, there have been recent discussions on different code readers

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

c13pep
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:51 pm

Update good news after a short ride up and down my drive (120 metres long) the brakes appear to be fully functional if a little fierce, with the brake failure light extinguishing shortly after set off.
There appears to be a tiny bit of sideways play when gripping the rear wheel horizontally but not in the vertical plain which suggests swingarm bearings or more likely the bearings at the end of the diff tube, is this a difficult job to do. My first thought was to retorque the left and right hand pins and lock nut at the wheel end of the drive shaft tube as these bearing appear to be taper needles.
Apart from the above all seems to be going well just the very low tickover to sort and a pitted fork stanchion to replace and hopefully the bike will be MOT ready.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:52 pm

......….There appears to be a tiny bit of sideways play when gripping the rear wheel horizontally but not in the vertical plain which suggests swingarm bearings or more likely the bearings at the end of the diff tube, is this a difficult job to do. My first thought was to retorque the left and right hand pins and lock nut at the wheel end of the drive shaft tube as these bearing appear to be taper needles...…….

Are you sure it is play in the Pivot Pin/Paralever bearings and not in the Final Drive bearing?
On my R1100RT, I lock the rear brake on to distinguish if there is Pivot Pin/Paralever bearing play rather than Final Drive large bearing play. This locks the rear wheel to the Final Drive unit and eliminates the Final Drive large bearing.
Not sure if the rear disk setup is the same as on your R1150 though.

If it is only a minute amount of play i.e. less than 1mm at the wheel rim, then I would leave it but monitor it regularly.

CAUTION: The Paralever Pivot Pins are originally fitted with Red Loctite.
If an attempt is made to undo these pins without heating them to soften the Loctite then it is very likely that the threads in the Paralever will be stripped out.

The Paralever Pivot Pin adjustment is made on the LH Pivot Pin AFTER the Pin has been removed and both the Pin, Locknut and the Paralever threads have been cleaned of all old hardened Loctite.
The pin should now screw into the Paralever EASILY by hand.

If you remove the LH Pivot Pin you have THREE options when refitting:
1. Use Red Loctite as per the BMW Service Manual.
2. Use Blue Loctite (loosens with hand tools without requiring heat).
3. Do not use any Loctite (allows for easy future adjustment check and re-adjustment).
NOTE: If you use Loctite you MUST always remove the Pivot Pin completely for thread cleaning before any adjustment can be made.

I use Option 3 as does Chris Harris and I paint dot the pin/Paralever to show up any later movement:
Chris Harris video 'Paralever Rear Drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0_j8SuiFQI

Once the LH Pivot Pin, Locknut and Paralever threads have been cleaned up, then the Pivot Pin is inserted and tightened to a preload of 10 Nm.
I like to grease the bearing end of the Pivot Pin and the Paralever bearing with Moly grease before fitting the pin.

The Locknut is fitted and tightened to 105 Nm while ensuring that the Pivot Pin does not move from its preload setting (there is a BMW Special Tool to achieve this but, with care, it can be done without if the Pivot Pin position is marked to ensure that no rotation has occurred to change the preload).

The RH Pivot Pin which is torqued to 150 Nm, does not need to be touched to do the LH pin adjustment.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Mike D » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:13 am

and a pitted fork stanchion to replace

I wouldn't be overly worried about the fork stanchion pitting as the oil in that section does nothing but a bit of lubrication. Unlike a normal telescopic fork set up, on the telelever front end all the suspension activity is by way of the spring and damper unit.


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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:25 am

I`ve just watched the you tube video and am now a lot less daunted by the whole job of checking/removing the diff, however I will monitor the situation and no doubt the MOT tester will have the final say on whether it is too much play.
With regard to the forks the pitted one needs new fork seals which I assume is because the pitting is in the `swept` area and has rubbed the seal away in parts, I already know that my local MOT tester will fail this (it`s one of his pet hates). I will be replacing the pitted stanchion as part of the recommission having rubbed it down with wire wool and 1200 grade to little effect.
I`m trying to fix the problems while I have the bike stripped down which should minimise any future maintenance over and above servicing .
Many thanks for the input which has eased my situation with regard to worries about the amount of work this bike needs and its complexity.
On a lighter note the ride down my gravel drive testing power brakes for the first time was certainly an eye opener as compared to the linked brakes of my 35 year old Moto Guzzis 8-[
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:00 am

As Mike D says, the front forks rely on the spring shock unit for the front suspension and there are no springs in the fork legs.
The fork sliders are filled with oil but this is mainly for stanchion/slider lubrication purposes.

My 1996 R1100RT RH fork seal always 'weeps' at the start of the season and, after needlessly changing seals, I found that this is fixed by giving the fork seal a clean using the 'Seal Mate' tool (Ebay and video on YouTube) or a short length cut from a builders metal tape measure and the sharp corners rounded off (the curved cross-section fits the stanchions perfectly).
Once cleaned, I don't have any further problems for that season.

Any pitting in the stanchion can usually be fixed by filling with epoxy glue and rubbing down smooth.

The main issue with a leaking Oilhead fork seal is that the oil runs down the slider and gets onto the brake caliper and disc.
If the leak is that bad for this to happen then it can often be noticed by oil splashes on your riding boots.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:28 am

Thanks for that CED
Fork stanchion was pretty bad and although not easily visible detracted from the general appearance of the bike especially with oil seeping down the fork leg, hence my decision to change it. Still can`t work out how one stanchion rusts and the other is perfect, but I`ve seen it on many bikes.
I may need your help on the lack of tickover, though I`m hoping a good run out will help matters, so far I`ve
flushed out old petrol
cleaned out the BBS ports
checked cables are seated in there ferrules
checked for cable cam rattle
The only anomaly was on the left side when flushing thro` the BBS nothing came out of the vacuum take off until I opened the throttle a little whereas on the right side I flushed and it came out straight away, which suggests the butterfly is fully closed on the left but cannot find much info on this.
I have no idea if the throttle stops have been messed with as I cannot see any paint on them but the bike has covered 70000 and because its been stood for 5 years many of the bolts/fastenings have rusted (changing most to stainless)
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:16 pm

Hi Chris,

You could be right about the Throttle Stop Screws having been messed about with as this could have a serious effect on the idling.

However, while undesirable, it is not a disaster.
There is a procedure called 'Zero-Zero' which our forum member 'Windmill John' has used successfully to resolve this situation.

Don't use this procedure until all else has failed as you don't know for sure that the Throttle Stop Screws have been altered.

Throttle Cables should have 1mm Free Play at the Throttle Body cable adjusters when the Throttle is closed.

Continue with flushing that LH Throttle Body BBS with Carb Cleaner as there may be a blockage.
I don't think that a fully closed Butterfly should affect the BBS flush but I could be wrong.
Do a back-flush from the vacuum take-off tube as well.
The bike should be on the mainstand when flushing the BBS and doing a Throttle Balance.

As your bike is an R1150 Oilhead it will have the 'intelligent' MA2.4 Motronic ECU.
This ECU generates 'Offset' tables of the optimum engine operating parameters which are used for running the engine.
One of these parameters is the Min and Max Throttle positions.

If the Battery is disconnected for longer than about 5 minutes, the 'Offsets' table data is lost.
It gets built up again as the ECU relearns the optimum operating parameters for your engine but this takes a little time.

It is therefore best to perform a manual 'Throttle Relearn' to restore the Min/Max Throttle parameters immediately if the battery has been disconnected.
The starting and idling can be initially affected if this is not done.

Throttle Relearn

1. Switch the Ignition On (do not start the engine).

2. Operate the Throttle from the fully closed position to the fully open position three times.

3. Switch the Ignition Off.

4. The Throttle Relearn is complete.


Once you have serviced the plugs and the tappets, do a Throttle Balance using a Manometer.
You can make a Manometer cheaply and simply from plastic tubing, a wooden frame and some coloured oil such as 2-stroke oil.
There are instructional videos on YouTube on how to make and use the Manometer.

You can run your R1150RT without the side fairings fitted as long as the mirror/indicator pods are refitted.
This means that you can take the bike for its MOT like this and you (and the inspector) get a better look at the condition of the bike.
If you keep it like this for a couple of weeks it allows you to eyeball for leaks and make any necessary adjustments that may be required.
It also gives you a better chance of fixing a fault in the event of a breakdown.
Once you are satisfied that the bike is running OK you can put the side fairings back on.

My R1100RT is used continually in this naked mode now and there is less corrosion and dirt on the frame.
It allows you to do a walk-round the bike when stopped to check for any problems arising.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:42 pm

Thanks for that CED it tells me that I really need to get out on the bike if only to let it `relearn` its parameters, not least because I have fitted a new battery within the last few days after disconnecting the original dead one when I first got the bike.
Judging by what your saying there must be a direct port from the BBS chamber to the vacuum take off within the construction of the throttle body. I have blown brake cleaner up the vacuum take off without success so I will persevere at the BBS end but you can`t even leave it to soak over night due to the cleaner evaporating quickly.
I have just realised that you are quoting carb cleaner and I am quoting brake cleaner, is there a significant difference? not to worry I can nip out and buy some.

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:12 pm

Hi Chris,

Yes, there is a difference between Carb Cleaner and Brake Cleaner.
Both are pretty volatile and evaporate quickly but the Carb Cleaner has been specially formulated to dissolve carbon and gummed fuel deposits as found in Carburettors/Throttle Bodies (TBs) whereas the Brake Cleaner deals with road grime/diesel and high temp brake pad deposits.
As you may have a blocked TB BBS port I would choose the Carb Cleaner.

I think that the BBS port has a gallery to the vacuum take-off tube and also to a tiny orifice on the engine side of the Throttle Body Butterfly to bleed idle air into the engine.
You might try very gently finger-rotating a small drill up the vacuum tube to see if anything has got blocked up there.
The reverse flush from the vacuum take-off should be apparent at the BBS - use the RH TB for comparison as to what should happen.

Check the condition of the O-rings on the BBS screws and the condition of the BBS screw point ends which should also be cleaned.
Note that the BBS screws can be different sizes over the Oilhead range so ensure that any replacement O-rings are the correct size for the BBS screw fitted to your bike model.
You can get the correct BBS O-rings from Motorworks and likely Motobins and James Sherlock as well.

You may be able to fill the BBS port with the Carb Cleaner and lightly plug/cover it with cotton wool or tape to try and keep the fluid from evaporating too quickly to allow it to soak overnight. Keep the cap on the vacuum tube.
Any problem with the LH BBS port or Butterfly will show up when you are doing the Idle Throttle Balance.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:46 pm

I have looked at various photos and drawings and it appears that the BBS galleries emerge either side of the butterfly at high level thus in my case the one on the air filter side is clear but the other one is blocked, which accounts for my having to open the throttle slightly to let the fluid thro`. There does not appear to be a gallery directly linking the BBS to the vacuum take off, more likely the fluid flows by gravity into the lowest part of the body which is the vacuum take off.

As for my mistake with the cleaners, old habits die hard, or to be more accurate my grandson has used all my carb cleaner and replaced it with brake cleaner without me noticing (this old age is not all it`s cracked up to be :sad: )
CHRIS

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:02 pm

Thanks for that info Chris. :smile:

Following your post I had intended to try and find a diagram of the TB galleries on the internet.

Re the vacuum take-off, there must be a passage somehow to the BBS as the fluid sprayed into the BBS comes out the vacuum tube. :-k

Puzzling - I'll try and find a TB diagram.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby c13pep » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:31 am

Yes I think it`s just that the fluid enters the main inlet chamber on the engine side of the TB butterfly and then just escapes thro` the vacuum take off because it`s the lowest part of the body. On the outside of the TB casting you can see the 2 passages into the main orifice at the end of the BBS chamber that have been machined and sealed, however there doesn`t seem to be anything at the vacuum take off unless there is a passage inside the casting spine that runs along the underside of the body. I may try a test by removing the TB, and observing the result when I flush the BBS to see where the fluid comes out. Best of luck finding a TB schematic with that much detail
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Re: Recommissioning 2004 RT1150

Postby oldyam » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:35 am

The vacuum take off is directly out of the main bore of the throttle body at the bottom after the butterfly, and the BBS port feeds into the side of the throttle body after the butterfly, therefore anything sprayed in through the BBS port runs out of the hole at the bottom ( the vacuum take off ).
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