Intermittent ignition problems

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ptjenkins65
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Intermittent ignition problems

Postby ptjenkins65 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:49 am

Hi everyone. I have a problem with my bike and would appreciate some advice.
My r60/6 has been running well but it has developed an intermittent problem.
When I was riding the other day it just cut out on me. I had no tools on me so walked home, picked up my kit and returned to the bike. I thought I would give it another try and it fired first time. I put the problem down to fuel as it is very hot (Italy) and we are up at around 1000m. Anyway the bike functioned well for the rest of the day, multiple turning off and on.
Yesterday I went to start the bike and it failed to start again. It was turning over but nothing. I took the plugs out, which all look good, and found there was no spark to either side.
I removed the tank to see if anything was obviously wrong but saw nothing. I tried again with the left plug out and after a few turns with no spark, it started to spark again and when reassembled started with ease again.
The battery is charged, the bike has electronic ignition fitted less than a year ago and good clean plugs.
Any suggestions?
Pete
1998 r850r
1979 r45
1974 r60/6
Still learning

Mjolinor
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:01 am

Kill switch. Easily proven by taking it out of the circuit by shorting the wires together.

If it is very hot then the electronic ignition is likely to have a temperature related automatic shut off.

Kill switch first though.

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CharlieVictor
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby CharlieVictor » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:07 am

Hi everyone. I have a problem with my bike and would appreciate some advice.
My r60/6 has been running well but it has developed an intermittent problem.
When I was riding the other day it just cut out on me. I had no tools on me so walked home, picked up my kit and returned to the bike. I thought I would give it another try and it fired first time. I put the problem down to fuel as it is very hot (Italy) and we are up at around 1000m. Anyway the bike functioned well for the rest of the day, multiple turning off and on.
Yesterday I went to start the bike and it failed to start again. It was turning over but nothing. I took the plugs out, which all look good, and found there was no spark to either side.
I removed the tank to see if anything was obviously wrong but saw nothing. I tried again with the left plug out and after a few turns with no spark, it started to spark again and when reassembled started with ease again.
The battery is charged, the bike has electronic ignition fitted less than a year ago and good clean plugs.
Any suggestions?
Pete
Well, with all due respect, you were just all over the map at random? :-k
Simplest things first... battery and battery terminals, lose connections, lead wires, kill switch indeed if it's a known issue... Then move to more complicated/time-consuming things..
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ptjenkins65
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby ptjenkins65 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:35 am

Wow quick reply’s, thanks. On the second morning it was still cool, so perhaps not the thermal cut out, but I will short the kill switch and see if the problem returns. It was happening to both plugs at the same time.
Pete
1998 r850r
1979 r45
1974 r60/6
Still learning

Roy Gavin
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Roy Gavin » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:21 pm

Could be the ignition switch - you can bypass it by by hot wiring from the battery to the rear brake light switch live feed.
I have had two switches fail, one was bad internal contacts, on the other the crimped in plastic back of the switch had come loose.

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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby SimonG » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:05 pm

Electronic ignition?
I had a Boyer fail on me a few years back (well, exactly the same symptoms as you've got, ended up replacing the unit - not the sensor - and the problem disappeared completely so I think it's fairly safe to assume it was the ignition unit).
Your electronic ignition isn't very old (if it was new when fitted) but unfortunately that isn't necessarily a guarantee.
(Still, hopefully the cause will be something simpler.)

SG
'80 R100RT, '00 Sprint 955i, '56 Ariel VH 500

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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Jon K » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:36 pm

Hi Pete,

If you search for my thread, ‘No sparks’ you should find a complete step-by-step diagnostic procedure from the amazing Ced (Galactic Greyhound) that might put you on the right track.

Jon


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ptjenkins65
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby ptjenkins65 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:58 am

Hi. I just thought, the spark, when it was there was more white than blue. Dos that indicate anything.
Pete
1998 r850r
1979 r45
1974 r60/6
Still learning

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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby John Marshall » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:24 am

As said do you have points or a Boyer electronic ignition. I have had the latter fail to work spontaneously on two occasions, once in 1976 and once in 2009, so not a common phenomenon. On the fist occasion the trick was to reverse the polarity of the connections for a second, on the unit underneath the points cover on an A65. On the later occasion it was on my R60/7 and had to push home.Removed unit and replaced it,fault fixed and has never come back.Odd but come to think of it we still have to switch electronics off and on now and again to fix issues.
Only similarity was very hot weather. Have you a condenser still?
John

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Rob Frankhamr
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:20 am

As said do you have points or a Boyer electronic ignition.
John

In the first post, Pete says that he has electronic ignition (fitted a year ago) but he doesn't say what type. Delving back into earlier threads, it would appear to be Boyer Bransden.

Rob
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ptjenkins65
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby ptjenkins65 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi Yes its a Boyer Brandon unit. New around a year ago i guess.
Not been an issue to date.
1998 r850r
1979 r45
1974 r60/6
Still learning

Mjolinor
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mjolinor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:17 pm

Electronic devices never are a problem until they are. :)

I don't think it is your first port of call as it is very hard to diagnose unless you have the bits to remove it from the equation by going back to points.

ptjenkins65
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby ptjenkins65 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:31 pm

So just to recap.
There seem to be three possible or likely reasons for the fault.
The starter button
The kill switch
The electronic ignition unit.
How do I find out which one of these guilty parties is the guilty party.
Or is there another option.
Pete
1998 r850r
1979 r45
1974 r60/6
Still learning

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Rob Frankhamr
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:45 pm

Sorry Pete but if only there were only three options... There are quite a few others, for instance a coil failing a bad connection somewhere in the feed to the coil or a bad wire, well, anywhere in the ignition circuit really.

I think you can forget the starter button... that is only used to start the bike and won't cause it to cut out once it is started.

The big problem with intermittent faults is that they are... intermittent. They're very difficult to find when they're not playing up because, well, they're not playing up and finding something that isn't there is always a bit tricky.

Question - when the bike cut out, and the engine stopped, did the oil light come on? did the neutral light work? The lights receive their current from the same source of as the ignition circuit. If they came on as normal when the engine stopped, you can pretty well discount the circuitry as far as and including the kill switch. If the lights went dead, then it is a fair assumption that your problem is not the BB setup or the coil, it is in the wiring from the battery, via the ignition switch, to (and including) the kill switch.

Rob
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Jon K » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 pm

So just to recap.
There seem to be three possible or likely reasons for the fault.
The starter button
The kill switch
The electronic ignition unit.
How do I find out which one of these guilty parties is the guilty party.
Or is there another option.
Pete
Like I said, find my thread called ‘no sparks’ and Ced’s diagnostics are there.

Jon



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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Roy Gavin » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:00 am

http://vintagebikemagazine.com/technica ... -shooting/
The starter button is unlikely to be the problem, the kill switch only slightly less so.
More likely is the ignition switch, or a fault in the wiring from it which supplies power to the ignition system.
If you have a in line fuse in the ignition system the spring loaded type which take a cartridge fuse can cause problems too, particularly if there is no spring in it- DAHIK!

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Mark Esposito
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mark Esposito » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:59 pm

http://vintagebikemagazine.com/technica ... -shooting/
The starter button is unlikely to be the problem, the kill switch only slightly less so.
More likely is the ignition switch, or a fault in the wiring from it which supplies power to the ignition system.
If you have a in line fuse in the ignition system the spring loaded type which take a cartridge fuse can cause problems too, particularly if there is no spring in it- DAHIK!
Hi Roy,

I can't get that link to work.

Mark

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Mark Esposito
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mark Esposito » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:03 pm

Looks like the whole site is down at the moment.

Mark

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windmill john
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby windmill john » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:41 pm

Try a different browser.
Try clearing your cache

Site up..... of course it could have been down half an hour ago, but as I support end users in IT it’s probably you :wink: :grin:
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Bumble, my 700 Transalp.
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sundance, my 500T.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot, but Honda is also great.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm

Try a different browser.
Try clearing your cache

Site up..... of course it could have been down half an hour ago, but as I support end users in IT it’s probably you :wink: :grin:
Nah, Microsoft to blame every day of the week. Works for me and did do half an hour ago. :)

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Mark Esposito
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mark Esposito » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:25 pm

Try a different browser.
Try clearing your cache

Site up..... of course it could have been down half an hour ago, but as I support end users in IT it’s probably you :wink: :grin:
Tried Android browser and chrome and navigation via Google to get on the site, all resulted in this 403 message.

MarkImage

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I have a 1988 R80 RT monolever in case i forget to mention it when asking a question ! and I'm based in South Wales

Mjolinor
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 pm

It is http, not https so do you have it enabled for insecure sites?
Try this:

https://vintagebikemagazine.com/technic ... -shooting/

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Mark Esposito
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mark Esposito » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm

Thanks but it's still the same,
Could it be because I'm abroad ?
I'll try it with my vpn when I get back tonight.


Mark

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I have a 1988 R80 RT monolever in case i forget to mention it when asking a question ! and I'm based in South Wales

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windmill john
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby windmill john » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:53 pm

I guess there is a possibility that wherever you are does not allow access to unsecured sites, a possible precaution in the firewall they are using.

Can’t quite tell from your previous post if you tried popping in an ‘s’ in the address, try link below.

https://vintagebikemagazine.com/


John
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Bumble, my 700 Transalp.
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sundance, my 500T.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot, but Honda is also great.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Mark Esposito
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Re: Intermittent ignition problems

Postby Mark Esposito » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:11 am

Success !

Back on the VPN, I had no problem getting on the site, thanks for the help and suggestions

MarkImage

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I have a 1988 R80 RT monolever in case i forget to mention it when asking a question ! and I'm based in South Wales


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