What bike next

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windmill john
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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Sat May 01, 2021 6:49 pm

Yes, still have Gupta.

Interesting that the classic 500 is faster than the Himalayan.

I know speed isn’t everything, but just a tad more would be good. Yes you can drop a tooth, but I would not want to sacrifice any acceleration.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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windmill john
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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Sat May 01, 2021 6:54 pm

What to get now if you:

Don’t want trailee.
Not too heavy.
Maybe not a million years old, so you’re not under the hood all the time...

Maybe a Mash.... maybe an SR400?....
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: What bike next

Postby John Marshall » Sat May 01, 2021 9:16 pm

What about a Panther 600?

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george baker
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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Sat May 01, 2021 9:18 pm

Hi
SR400, is that modern? I remember the name from 20? years ago?

I am keeping an eye out for a late model local Honda CBF250, or older CB250 Nightwawk.

Yep 400 Mash (or any others from that Chinese factory) might do, but I'm a bit concerned with how it will hold up for 10-ish years.

I have not met a Himalayan owner who does not like it.

George
Member 21, R100R, and an under used K75

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Re: What bike next

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sun May 02, 2021 9:58 am


I think I’d still like an R80, R100, but thinking back, the R65 was a great all rounder. Noticeably lighter than the bigger models. So might be an idea.
By the stated spec, the R45/R65 models are only marginaly lighter than 'long stroke models and heavier than the GS based models...

R45/65 - 205kg
R80ST - 198kg
R100 - 218 kg

An difference of less than 10% is probably not noticeable. Other variations probably make more difference subjectively.

Rob
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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Sun May 02, 2021 11:22 am

Hi
I have often heard that the 45/65 was lighter, I wonder why the idea persists, could it be Length?, trail? Lower seat?

Oddly the K75 (227Kg) is close to the R100R 213Kg in weight but the 100 feels a lot lighter even with loaded panniers (apart from the time I put 2 sets of car brake disks in 1 pannier). The K feels like it's centre of mass is just under my gusset while the R feels like it is 4 inches lower, down by my knees

George
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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Sun May 02, 2021 11:47 am

The R80RT is 235kg, the Transalp 700, 214kg. Both were noticeably heavier pushing up my drive than my R65; a very short slope.
With their bars, you’d have thought is was easier. Now it could be down to bar position, bar height in relation to my body position when pushing. I just found it easier pushing the R65. Yes he is lighter, but the difference felt more.

For total ease and security at slow speed, then my F650GS. It is noted for low seat height. I find it a little too low, but blimey, it makes one feel very confident at 0 to 5 mph on gravel etc. I’ve ridden taller bikes off road, but you can’t beat the security.

I feel for you George.... light bike, but not tooo much loss of power. Two simple requests but very difficult to find.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Sun May 02, 2021 12:51 pm

Hi
light bike, but not tooo much loss of power
It's worse than that John I want the power/torque not much higher up the rev range as well. The G310 goes a long way towards the first two but then REVs.

I had a Hyosung 250, and sold it because I could not get on with the lack of torque and the revs. I hated changing down 2 gears to do a neat overtake. With the K75 I just shove in Auto (well 4th) and it just does almost everything.

The F650 goes a long way to what I want but I could not justify keeping the R cos the F is too close to it. In fact I cant really justify keeping the K75 and the R, most years I ride one or the other.

George
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Re: What bike next

Postby Mjolinor » Sun May 02, 2021 2:05 pm

I don't think it takes much weight difference to be seriously noticeable. My bike is hugely different with a full tank from the "feeling" of riding it when it has an empty tank. I much prefer to ride it when the tank is low on fuel.

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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Sun May 02, 2021 3:03 pm

I just have to say I’m jealous of the person who has had their bike 40 plus years and still loves it today as they did 40 years ago... but can still ride it comfortably. Move it comfortably. Work on it comfortably.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: What bike next

Postby John Marshall » Sun May 02, 2021 4:45 pm

I had a Blue R65 back in the day on a W plate. It vibrated at the speed I wanted to ride at. So did my R100RS, which did it at 3800 rpm. Not like an A65 or a RGS but irritating nevertheless.I had to follow someone to Dijon and back and he rode at that exact speed. Nice.
John

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Re: What bike next

Postby vmx1200 » Mon May 03, 2021 3:04 pm

The weight question is interesting, my RS weighs 230kg with a full tank and my R nineT weighs 220kg dry. The RS is the most cumbersome machine ever to move around, has an abysmal turning circle all not helped by the narrow bars and fairing.

The nineT is as easy to wheel around as a push bike and the centre of gravity is far lower than the RS
1978 R100RS owned since 1981
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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Mon May 03, 2021 4:56 pm

Hi
John Marshall, -- I just saw the suggestion of a P&M 600, I'v not had one for 40 years. Not sure I could kick one now, even 40 years ago I used ether to get it going sometimes.

I spent a chunk of a rainy bank holiday looking at Autotrader, 20 pages, up to £5K, within 20 miles, got me two bikes that approach the target, SV250 and BMW 310. But both need a lot of stick to make go though.

The only answer I can think of is the change my desires and think of something lighter than the R but with the same Power to weight, Torque to weight figures and sell the R, but I really dont want to choose that path.

It seems that either -- no manufacturer can make a bike that meets my desires OR -- there is no market for what I want (apart from me). Oddly there seems plenty of power but no torque. Plenty of 300ish cc bikes that would sort of do but they are all as revvy as a revvy thing, and some are almost as heavy as the R.

George
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Re: What bike next

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Mon May 03, 2021 6:57 pm


Plenty of 300ish cc bikes that would sort of do but they are all as revvy as a revvy thing, and some are almost as heavy as the R.

George


That's how you get the top end from a 300cc motor... you can have torque or you can have top end but it's nie on impossible to get both from the same engine.

Rob
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Re: What bike next

Postby andyb » Mon May 03, 2021 7:06 pm

You really should look at the V7 Guzzi George.
The 2014 Mk I model with 1 throttle body is better than the 2TB earlier version - more economical and easier to set up.
The later Mk II V7 from 2015 had lower footrests but the same engine and ABS and traction control.
Then the MkIII came along with a little more power (different heads) and a 6 speed gearbox.
Now the bike has an 850 engine and more power but is still called the V7!

I have a 2014 Mk I and it is smaller, feels lighter, less top heavy than the R100R - but is my summer bike as it has no real weather protection while my R100R has screen and leg shields.
Engine has low down grunt but still revs nicely.

There are other earlier small block Guzzis - the V50 is much smaller than a BMW.

AndyB
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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Tue May 04, 2021 12:24 pm

Hi
Rob - I do sort of understand the trade off, but manufacturers seem obsessed with the POWER, rather than torque.

AndyS, it would mean the 100R going. I had a T3, and loved it, I'm sure a modern Guzzi would be great and an improvement, principally better electrics, although Lolo's Brava was not good. A mate had a V50 when I had a CX, 40 years ago, but I dont want to buy an old bike. Too much fidddling and money but I was hoping for more modern technology.


It's the weight that is the real killer, if the Enfield engine was in a light frame it would be acceptable

I have found (on Paper, but not in the metal) a cracking choice that would allow me to keep the R -- BMW G650 X-Country 50Hp/40Ftlb, 150Kg.. Having looked I dont know why F650 and G650 are so heavy, probably 50 Kg more, that's as much as my last pillion.

There is a BMW310R at a dealers near me that I may go and look at, but dont know if I can put up with the revvy-ness

George
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Re: What bike next

Postby Mjolinor » Tue May 04, 2021 12:52 pm

Seems to me that a trip to Metisse for a special is what you need. Assuming you are not too old to mortgage everything you own in order to pay for it.

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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Tue May 04, 2021 5:07 pm

Hi
I suspect that I can afford it, just too mean to! I dont want a 50 year old British bike though.

I could have an R built to suit me in Edenfield, but it means getting rid of the R100R. Although when I asked there if my K could be made 20 Kg lighter, I was told that I was a fat lump who should loose weight. He did put it slightly more tactfully though.

Following Covid I suppose I could sign up for a gym membership and build the muscle to move the R about.

I plan to start to investigate why the G650GS is so much heavier than the X-Co. I know on the X-Co the ali rear subframe is only a couple of Kg than the steel one.

George
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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Tue May 04, 2021 7:51 pm

Having now experienced a twin spark 650GS, I am aware that the G650GS also has a low set height. Whilst it’s not as comfortable as a higher seat, due to bent knees, it does make a very pleasant bike to ride. Very easy due to height.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: What bike next

Postby Jockboxer » Wed May 05, 2021 10:26 am

The X Country seems well favoured by people whose judgement I respect. Well worth considering and I will, in due course.

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Re: What bike next

Postby windmill john » Wed May 05, 2021 11:16 am

And if the design hasn't changed, the X final drive sprocket is in line with the swinging arm pivot. Meaning you can bugger up the chain tension to your heart's content as the chain length does not change with suspension travel. :smile:
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Tweety Pie, my F650GS
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: What bike next

Postby DEEP DIVER » Fri May 07, 2021 10:54 am

Hi George I remember you saying about 3 wheels, well how about this JXR beetleback with a guzzi engine


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174758094811 ... SwK5BgklRs

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Re: What bike next

Postby nmag » Fri May 07, 2021 11:04 am


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Re: What bike next

Postby george baker » Fri May 07, 2021 12:55 pm

Hi
thanks for the suggestions.

I like the 3 wheeler, in fact think I went to the JZR "factory" around Blackburn 30 years ago. I have driven a thing like that at a Guzzi rally and found the foot pedals were off set like a Lada Niva.

The SR is old and I was hoping for modern-ish, also kick start only?

The local BMW310 has sold but the 310 forum has lots of unhappy members, mostly due to quality and delivery issues. That makes me a bit wary although as Ian used to say "nobody ever post another 1000 miles--no problems"

I have found out some of how the X-Co is lighter than the later G650 models. The weight is based on 90% fuel and it has a 9 litre tank, so that's around 8Kg off, some ali frame rails and Mag engine covers.

Keep the ideas coming

George
Member 21, R100R, and an under used K75

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Mark Esposito
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Re: What bike next

Postby Mark Esposito » Fri May 07, 2021 4:26 pm

The zontes 310 is getting better reviews than the BMW
They have a few variations naked, tourer and others.


Mark

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