Thin end of the wedge....?

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milleplod
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Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby milleplod » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Nocto Diuque Venamur

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:48 pm

Clearly time to emigrate.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby kent_instructor10 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:29 pm

If that happens councils country wide will see pound signs and a new cash cow. Considering that speed is the cause of nearly all road collisions they'd better get on it quickly. That will solve all our problems; such an easy fix, why hasnt it been done before? Speed limits will be enforced like never before; in the name of safety of course....
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby King Herald » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:32 am

Clearly time to stick to the speed limits.... they will lose interest once they earn no revenue.
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby milleplod » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:39 am

Central government would more than likely see the attraction of it - it would probably need a change in existing legislation, but the appeal is there! :shock:

Interestingly - https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-on-roads, with these taken from it -

“The evidence available to date shows no significant change in the short term in collisions and casualties, in the majority of the case studies (including the aggregated set of residential case studies).”

“Journey speed analysis shows that the median speed has fallen by 0.7mph in residential areas and 0.9mph in city centre areas.”

So the 2 key objectives of 20mph limits seem to be non-starters. Should local authorities ever get enforcement powers for speed limits though, I somehow suspect they will ignore such inconvenient truths from the DfT!

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:37 am

It would certainly require a change in legislation but that isn't much of a problem. Very few politicians are going to risk their seats by going up against the all powerful 'Road Safety/Green' lobby... no matter whether they are right or not. There are after all, a whole load of precedents where powers have been devolved from the police... there was a time when only police could enforce parking restrictions among a load of other things.

I think, what the local authorities fail to take into account is the enormous cost of speed enforcement. Far from being a cash cow, the money gained from fines barely covers the cost, especially when you take into consideration the cost of installing/maintaining automatic systems and, more to the point, the cost of prosecuting disputed cases and 'fail to appears'. There are figures to show that, at least up to 2010, speed enforcement in the UK actually ran at a monetary loss.

It has often been said (sotto Voce) that if a significant percentage of speeders were to dispute their cases (as is their right(at the moment)), the Criminal Justice System would collapse and 95% of people would get away with it.

It's interesting to note that even the government is acknowledging that 20mph speed limits don't work... of course, all the campaigners will say is that it's because they aren't enforced... but there we go full circle.

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Last edited by Rob Frankhamr on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:46 am

There are so many speed bumps in the 20 MPH zones in Burnley that you don't need to enforce it.

If I go over those bumps at 20 then my Smart car leaves the road, I have to be under 15 for sure and most of them under 10 to get over safely in one piece pointing in the right direction. I am sick of replacing coil springs.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Nate » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:16 am

In the twenty or so years since the Department relaxed the rules for 20mph limits they have become the unenforceable panacea for all road traffic concerns by reducing pollution, intrusion and casualties. That they may not have achieved any or all of these ideals doesn't deter local authorities from installing them wherever public opinion dictates. The next logical step is to have automatic enforcement, and that will happen as soon as the hypothecation issue that allows revenue to go to the local authority is determined.

I remember an embarrassing time a few years back when a local councillor who banged the drum repeatedly about fast cars ruining life in her village finally managed to get a speed camera put in, and was promptly one of the first to be caught doing 38 in a 30mph limit. Thing is we all see things differently whether we're on foot or behind the wheel. I absolutely hate speeding drivers, but love going fast on two wheels or four....

This driving thing is killing us. It's making the air unbreathable, trashing the quality of life in our towns and villages, killing kids, cyclists, drivers and riders, heating up the planet and requiring us to invade failing states, or even worse, buddy up with blood-soaked tyrants in Saudi just to keep the oil flowing. Strangely, we can't seem to stop ourselves, and even now I'm contemplating buying a 5.5 litre SL500 Mercedes to add to the three other cars and four bikes cluttering the drive.

God help us....

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:36 am

Watching the dashcam videos on you tube should become a compulsory part of the driving test. "I am in the right" by so many people, just let them in, they are the dickhead, let them get on with being so. People assuming there is nothing coming when they can't see, it probably works in 90% of cases but the 10% is what kills you.

There is so much more wrong with the way people drive than speeding, address those other problems and the speeding will stop on its own.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby DEEP DIVER » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:44 pm

Clearly time to stick to the speed limits.... they will lose interest once they earn no revenue.
Then they may drop the speed limit to 10mph to get money .
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Jon S » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:18 pm

Speaking locally, it would be better if our local council did start prosecuting those who break the limits on my local roads. The main road that runs through the village has a 40 limit that is ignored by just about all drivers going through the village. It's the same on the majority of our other local roads too, the speed limits might as well not be there. IF our council were allowed to prosecute those who ignore the limits the amount of money raised could used to reduce my council tax or support the local care homes.
Like all legislation, if it's not enforced and those who break the law aren't punished, then it might as well not be there in the first place.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:36 pm

All they need to do is make it a criminal offence instead of a motoring offence. If people speeding were likely to get a proper criminal offence that stopped them visiting America or any of a number of other countries or affected their ability to get a job then they would not do it. Make them do community service in the same way as a burglar does. A law is just that, there should be no making it a lesser offence because it is motoring related.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby windmill john » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:05 am

Sorry to disagree with a lot of you.

I don’t like the word speeding, it sounds bad. There’s a big difference between going faster than the posted speed and bad driving/riding.
I am generally a very law abiding citizen, but when they reduce the speed limit in some areas for reasons I cannot see, I imagine some people still travel at the old speed. There is a road near me which came down from national to 50mph. It’s not a country lane, there are no schools, few houses and no footpaths... I know people still travel at the old speed.

20mph in towns?!..... I can run faster than that; okay briefly!

Stronger penalties for bad drivers and not for going 5 mph over the limit. We need more police out there... Pete, get outa retirement and back out there...
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby andys » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:34 am

Clearly time to stick to the speed limits.... they will lose interest once they earn no revenue.

EXACTLY

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby milleplod » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:40 am

Sorry to disagree with a lot of you.

I don’t like the word speeding, it sounds bad. There’s a big difference between going faster than the posted speed and bad driving/riding.
I am generally a very law abiding citizen, but when they reduce the speed limit in some areas for reasons I cannot see, I imagine some people still travel at the old speed. There is a road near me which came down from national to 50mph. It’s not a country lane, there are no schools, few houses and no footpaths... I know people still travel at the old speed.

20mph in towns?!..... I can run faster than that; okay briefly!

Stronger penalties for bad drivers and not for going 5 mph over the limit. We need more police out there... Pete, get outa retirement and back out there...
I've been retired 10 years in 21 days time.....I wouldn't go back if they offered me £10k a week and a brand new RT to patrol on! :lol: I agree though - calling for 'zero tolerance' on speeding, and for motorists to 'simply not speed' are both nonsensical. Anyway, I enjoy speeding....on roads where I'll never, ever get caught....too much to give it up! :lol:
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby P-K » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:06 am

I enjoy speeding....on roads where I'll never, ever get caught....too much to give it up! :lol:
Me too :grin:
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:18 am

OK. I'll bite.

What is enjoyable about speeding?

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby milleplod » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:26 am

OK. I'll bite.

What is enjoyable about speeding?
If you don't get it.....well, you won't get it! :lol:
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:28 am

Hmm, that's like saying you don't like liver without ever eating any.

Not an acceptable answer, try again. :)

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby milleplod » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 am

Er......nope. :lol:
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:05 am

I think it differs from person to person... like most things.

I also think you need to draw the distinction between riding fast and speeding.

For some, it's simply a feeling of revolting against arbitrary laws and rules... for others it's a belief that they are 'better than that' and the rules don't apply to them, for yet others it's simply the adrenalin rush of doing something that is slightly risky. But for most, I guess it's a variable mixture of all of the above.

It's a bit like asking 'what is enjoyable about jumping off a bridge with a big elastic band tied to your ankle or jumping out of a perfectly good aeroplane strapped to a bit of silk... or even wandering through the African countryside with a gun trying to shoot a lion... or Football. No real rational reason for any of them but it doesn't stop thousands of people wanting to have a go.

In a way, Pete's answer is right... it's not something you can quantify, if you don't get it, then you really won't no matter what anyone says and that, I think, is because everyone is different. Even people who do outwardly the same things, do them for a different mish-mash of reasons that are unique to them.

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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby P-K » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:04 pm

OK. I'll bite.
What is enjoyable about speeding?
I enjoy riding fast.
I enjoy the adrenalin
I enjoy track days on 2 wheels and on 4.
I do stick to 20, 30, 40 and 50 mph limits, but there are some national speed limit roads where I have a flexible attitude.
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby gogs01 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm

I've done a couple of trackways and, more recently and on a R1200RT, I did a lap of the Nordschleife (Nurburgring).
These were done as fast as I was able (so, actually, not very !) and that was all very exciting - a real buzz :shock:
Since the Nordschleife is a "public" toll road and subject to road traffic laws, I would have been speeding - if there had been a speed limit :grin:
For anyone who likes speeding, I would highly recommend a trip to the Nurburgring. For anyone who doesn't like it (and presumably never does it) I have no recommendation, but one request - please do not impose your speed limit on me by hogging the overtaking lanes (i.e. any lane other than the left lane). :smile:
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby kent_instructor10 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:24 pm

OK. I'll bite.

What is enjoyable about speeding?
I dont think there is anything enjoyable about speeding. I think the majority of 30 limits are there for a reason, and most 20s.

But i do think some 40s and 50s are inappropriate, put in place by local authorities to try and reduce collision statistics caused by drivers who are incompetent and or dangerous. So sensible road users are capped to compensate for those who dont know when to slow down in a national.

Perhaps if drivers were of a better ability we could have higher national speed limits, but the amount of collisions that seem to happen would prevent that.

Unless things have changed in recent years, emergency service drivers often do more miles at high speed but statistically have less collisions. And its not because of blue lights...
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Re: Thin end of the wedge....?

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:39 pm

I didn't mean riding fast. I meant speeding i.e. getting some buzz or something else from breaking the law.

To me if you consider it to be OK to break the laws of the country in which you choose to abide then how can you ever condemn someone for murder or burglary or any other law breaking that someone may get a buzz from.


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