I have to ask

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andys
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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:53 pm

The vaccine could be tagged without a chip. Finger prick blood test similar to diabetic blood test could reveal the presence of the vaccine or not.

Getting a bit science fictiony is this now. :)
Possibly, but if you'd suggested a year ago that you believed a flu virus was going to sweep the world causing governments to crash their economies, put millions out of work, creating trillions in debt and laws to prevent us leaving our houses and giving the authorities the right to dictate to us who we can and cannot interact with, you would have been laughed at.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby george baker » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:42 pm

Hi
The 2006 movie "Contagion" had me concerned since about 2015, especially when 100 years from the 1918 Spanish Lady was due.

Kevin Warwick, Project Cyborg, was doing RFID implants in 1998, and as AndyS says we accept them in our Cats and dogs.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:47 pm

Hi
The 2006 movie "Contagion" had me concerned since about 2015, especially when 100 years from the 1918 Spanish Lady was due.

Kevin Warwick, Project Cyborg, was doing RFID implants in 1998, and as AndyS says we accept them in our Cats and dogs.

George
I think it'll be a gradual process but this could herald the beginning

https://www.sciencealert.com/an-invisib ... nated-kids

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Re: I have to ask

Postby george baker » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:55 pm

Hi
that looks like a good idea

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 pm

I think I am missing something here. Early on there was talk of immunity once you had it, then some doubt about whether you were or not. A while ago all talk of that disappeared.

Can a vaccine offer better immunity than actually having the virus?

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:21 pm

I think I am missing something here. Early on there was talk of immunity once you had it, then some doubt about whether you were or not. A while ago all talk of that disappeared.

Can a vaccine offer better immunity than actually having the virus?
They keep moving the goalposts.
I wouldn't be surprised if they say eventually that one vaccine isn't enough and we have to keep having it every year.
One thing we do know for sure is that the overall survival rate for covid is about 99%
You've got more chance of being killed riding your bike.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby george baker » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:50 pm

Hi
Can a vaccine offer better immunity than actually having the virus?
Who knows? I suspect there is no way of telling but I guess both a vaccine and getting the virus give you equal antibodies. So probably NO a vaccine does not offer better immunity than having the virus.

I wouldn't be surprised if they say eventually that one vaccine isn't enough and we have to keep having it every year.
Not sure who you mean by THEY but I suspect that annual vaccination for the most vulnerable, like seasonal 'flu', could become the norm

One thing we do know for sure is that the overall survival rate for covid is about 99%
99% Overall maybe, but not true for many people here I suspect due to our age and conditions

You've got more chance of being killed riding your bike.
I suspect this may be true Overall, depending on who you mean and the miles they ride under what conditions. But there are long term lower levels of problems with each.

Life is a balance of physical risks and we must each make our own decisions, including the risk of vaccination, outcome of having the virus including long term after effects, riding motorcycles and using a chainsaw, as I did today. There are also social risks associated with decisions like the people who can not show a clear test in the last 72 hours being excluded from the UK.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 am

As I say.
Please get that vaccine so I can sit back and make sure it's safe before I take it.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:53 am

If the vaccine offers about the same immunity as having the virus then why are they not testing people to see if they have had the virus before giving them the vaccine?

Given that we now know that a high percentage of people show little or no symptoms and that officially we cannot get the vaccine fast enough or in large enough numbers, why waste it on people that already have protection?

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:14 am

a) The logistics involved would slow the distribution of the vaccine enormously.

b) There is evidence to show that the vaccine may grant a longer period of immunity than that derived from having the disease, especially when the subject doesn't get symptoms.

c) Many of the people who had the disease in the first stages of the pandemic are now reaching the point where their immunity is questionable.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:58 pm

If the vaccine offers about the same immunity as having the virus then why are they not testing people to see if they have had the virus before giving them the vaccine?

Given that we now know that a high percentage of people show little or no symptoms and that officially we cannot get the vaccine fast enough or in large enough numbers, why waste it on people that already have protection?
Covid testing is very unreliable.
We don't often hear about false positive results which is a significant statistic.
The fact is we do not really have an accurate figure on infections
Add in that PHE add people to the death data under the category "died with covid" if they've tested positive but died within 28 days of unrelated causes, then it all becomes a bit of a fiasco.
In my age group my chances of survival are 99.7% which is statistically irrelevant, so I'll take my chances.
As I said
I've got a significantly higher chance of being killed riding my bike.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby windmill john » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm

Can I ask a question, not too much off topic. I’ve asked this of a minister and am waiting a reply.

I am not saying anything negative about COVID, I just want an answer; an opinion will do...

2015 there were 529,000 deaths. As an aside, over 210,000 of these were cancer related.
Let’s focus on the 529,000 for the minute. That’s 1449 per day.

My question relates to COVID deaths, as we know, if you’ve tested positive for COVID, however you die, it’s a COVID death. Now I’m fully aware they may never get to the bottom of some deaths. How do they really get to COVID deaths; by the way, COVID auto corrects and I haven’t bothered to correct.

I’m sure no one can give me an exact answer and I guess the acid test will be the total deaths per year.
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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:45 pm

Can I ask a question, not too much off topic. I’ve asked this of a minister and am waiting a reply.

I am not saying anything negative about COVID, I just want an answer; an opinion will do...

2015 there were 529,000 deaths. As an aside, over 210,000 of these were cancer related.
Let’s focus on the 529,000 for the minute. That’s 1449 per day.

My question relates to COVID deaths, as we know, if you’ve tested positive for COVID, however you die, it’s a COVID death. Now I’m fully aware they may never get to the bottom of some deaths. How do they really get to COVID deaths; by the way, COVID auto corrects and I haven’t bothered to correct.

I’m sure no one can give me an exact answer and I guess the acid test will be the total deaths per year.
I can't even see a question. :)

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Re: I have to ask

Postby windmill john » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:06 pm

Of course you could be joking, you are Mjolinor after all :wink:

How do we know the difference between COVID deaths and ‘normal’ deaths?
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Re: I have to ask

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:35 pm

You may wish to read this which will give you the truth (or a close approximation if you like) about the recording of 'cause of death' during the epidemic and the reason why things are recorded as they are. Like most things, it's there on the internet if you care to look for it...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... vid-19.pdf

And yes, you are absolutely correct, the most useful information is the total number of deaths over a period since that takes into account not only those deaths that occur due (wholy or in part) to the illness but also those that might be expected to have occured in the absence of the pandemic and the lockdown meaures. As an example, I happened to read, today, that deaths due to air travel related reasons are down by 50% over the past twelve months (worldwide). Not much of a surprise really but there can be little doubt that this is due to the pandemic and there is also little doubt that it is echoed across a whole range of industries and occupations.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:14 pm

Also interesting but do remember it is the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55565284

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Re: I have to ask

Postby windmill john » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:04 pm

Interesting read that Rob. It doesn’t fully answer my question and to be frank, there probably never will get a clear cut answer.

As far as I can tell, if a test is done on the deceased and they have COVID, then that is put as the reason; I glad they cleared up “you cannot just put old age”!

I’ll lay my cards out and again, personal view. This is a virus which unfortunately tips people with other underlying health issues over the edge; possibly even undiagnosed health issues.
I guess what they need to do is, very detailed autopsies only on people who have died, who appear to be perfectly healthy in every way, not old etc.

And off the subject of the actual illness, personally, even though I don’t have children, have access to a garden, mortgage paid etc, I am finding the whole period quite..... hard, depressing, difficult, not quite sure to be honest.
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Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:23 pm

I think the only thing I miss are the autojumbles. Apart from that little has changed for me anyway.

I like home and everyone not here is an idiot. :)

A lot of people do call me Vic after Victor Meldrew.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:25 pm

In a nutshell, there are three 'boxes' on the certificate. Cause(s) of death, Contributory factors and other factors. All the guidelines say is that the presence of a positive Sars Cov 2 test must be shown in one of the three boxes. This is common for all notifiable diseases not just Sars Cov 2. The 'belief' that Covid 19 is always shown on a death certificate as 'The Cause of Death' is a figment of the imagination of various inflamatory media pundits.

We all have 'underlying health issues' and plenty of people are dying who don't have any pre-diagnosed issues and aren't over the age of 70 (or even 50).

They won't do unnecessary 'detailed' autopsies on every COVID death because they'd run out of pathologists. This is a highly infectious disease we are talking about.

Yes. I'm finding it hard as well. I have an eight year old grand daughter who lives 500 miles away and is constantly wondering why she can't see Grandad. Believe me that is hard. Apart from anything else, it has made me question most of the life decisions I've made over the last nine or ten years. Depressing? Tell me about it! Thank the stars for my partner, the support of the local community and the ability to do things to help others in the community who are unable to help themselves. Those are things that are keeping me (debateably) sane.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby windmill john » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:17 pm

I think the only thing I miss are the autojumbles. Apart from that little has changed for me anyway.
Mjolinor
Yes. I'm finding it hard as well. I have an eight year old grand daughter who lives 500 miles away and is constantly wondering why she can't see Grandad.

Rob

Strange thing is both, that like Mjolinor, I miss the auto jumbles. And besides the occasional meal out, for my wife and self nothing has changed. My wife works at a horse sanctuary four to six days a week, so not affected. Sorry you cannot see your grand daughter Rob. I think it’s stories like this that gets me down. Control taken away I guess. For the greater good........

I’m furloughed again from tomorrow. Full pay and lots of benefits, time wise, but still ......

My life is good, I should just not get upset.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Ari, my 500 Classic
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:11 pm


My question relates to COVID deaths, as we know, if you’ve tested positive for COVID, however you die, it’s a COVID death. Now I’m fully aware they may never get to the bottom of some deaths. How do they really get to COVID deaths; by the way, COVID auto corrects and I haven’t bothered to correct.

.
You won't get a straight answer to that question and believe me I've tried.
I've written to several medical organisations and did eventually get a rely from my MP which was clearly a standard copy and paste reply that didn't even address my questions.
Imagine if you were compiling data on private car crashes.
Would we be satisfied if people were being included in the fatality numbers who had crashed, but had later died falling down the stairs.
Well that's what is happening in regard to covid and it beggars belief they're getting away with it.
Sadly, most people don't delve beyond what the papers and TV news tell them.
There's no need for them to lie and indeed they are not.
They're just OMITTING certain facts that would allow the public to make informed decisions.
As an aside but on a similar subject, I remember years ago MCN did an article entitled "Bikers to be targeted in new bill **********"
Sorry I can't remember what the proposed legislation was but it's irrelevant.
MCN were just cleverly wording their article to make it APPEAR that bikers were being singled out, and it worked judging by the letters that came in the following week.
However a bit of research showed that it affected ALL road users and not just bikers.
Its a classic media tactic to instill fear and sell copy.
In the 21st century we're inclined to naively believe that fake news is an Internet phenomena.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:38 pm

NHS fail happened to a mate of mine this weekend. He recently had a heart bypass so not a well bloke. Had Covid tests five times since it started, all negative.

Felt ill but the symptoms of Covid are very similar to the problem he has with his heart and other knackered bits.

They took him to hospital and stuck him in a Covid ward but refused to give him a test.

I thought he was daft signing himself out until he told me why he had done it and I have to say he did the right thing leaving.
Well it seems he did not have Covid but he caught it, probably at the hospital and is now in intensive care unable to be put on a ventilator, the bypass has failed and he is under a "do not resuscitate" order.

Because of his health he and his wife have been completely locked down since last March and then this happens.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby andys » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:23 am

On a separate but related subject.
I bet this is going on quite a lot.
Remember that these people are supposed to be leading by example

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-caf.html

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Re: I have to ask

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:44 am

Lots of examples of idiocy:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... n-55668521

More important to get home quickly than to get there alive.

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Re: I have to ask

Postby King Herald » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:19 am


And off the subject of the actual illness, personally, even though I don’t have children, have access to a garden, mortgage paid etc, I am finding the whole period quite..... hard, depressing, difficult, not quite sure to be honest.

Same here, I’m one of the luckier ones, got my own place, with a garden, workshop, and a big dog, and I’m retired, so don’t need to work, and it’s five minutes walk from open fields etc... but I still find the whole lockdown depressing, and I have started laying in bed until gone 9am because there is simply no reason to get up.

I daren’t watch any news programs, because it is all Covid drama, can’t go for a decent bike ride, which I used to do a couple of times a week. I can’t even go and sit in a local coffee shop, people watching, as there are no coffee shops, an no people.

My daughter is home, banished from returning to university after her xmas break, so at least she gives me a reason to keep on functioning.
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