Advice for a beginner

Chat about anything to do with sidecars and outfits. NOT BMW specific - all welcome

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brunocrossley
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Advice for a beginner

Postby brunocrossley » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:48 pm

I have a couple of BM's, and I would like to put a single seat chair on my heavy flywheel R100.
I realise the benefits of tuition and practice, and know to my cost that outfits are steered not counter-steered.
I'd like to start out with my own outfit with at least a reasonable setup, without going mad.
At present the bike has K100 sport forks with 41.5mm stanchions, and the cast brace. I'd thought of reversing the legs, to reduce the trail a fraction. The wheel is a spoked 18" job. What tyres are available? I remember Avon side car triple duty? Size? 4.00 x 18"? Too wide for the front?
I have a choice of rear drive ratios, so can reduce the gearing. The rear wheel has a 18 x 3" spoked rim. Would another 4.00 x 18" be appropriate?
Is there an advantage to reducing the ride height? I expect a steering damper will help. I have spare rear suspension units with stiffer springs.
The motor is non standard, and the pre-81 clutch is only just up to the job as a solo. I have a spare later flywheel and box. Would that be a worthwhile swap, or should I keep the heavy flywheel. I've not found many upgrades to the existing clutch. Any suggestions?
Apart from a good setting up, are there any other obvious mods that would help combination-ness?

Thanks, Mark
Cheap bikes never are.
78' R100RS
14' R nineT

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george baker
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Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby george baker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:35 pm

Hi
some chair pilots go for 15 inch car tyres

There are a couple of places who (used?) to teach side-car drivable

A steering damper helped on one of my outfits as did adding some extra weight to the chair

I have been told you can have too light a chair on a heavy bike so I think the more experienced riders will need to know more about what your one is like before they can help.

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

brunocrossley
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Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby brunocrossley » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:49 pm

Ta George. Yes, I've realised that tuition will be useful:)

I was hoping for general pointers towards a simple-ish setup that didn't involve lots of specialised components, more like optimising what I've got. So no l/link forks, car wheels or frame mods.
I've just missed an eBay project Swallow Jet 80. That's the sort of size I was thinking of.
So my recipe at the moment would be Avon sidecar tyres front and rear, stiffened suspension, forks lowered through the yokes and reversed to tweak the rake and trail, wide handlebars, late spec clutch & gear box and lowered gearing from my existing spares stash.
4 point mounts using the engine mount bolts and cross braces near the subframe mount bolt and the frame down tubes up near the existing steering damper mount.

Does this sound anything like sensible?

Ta, Mark
Cheap bikes never are.
78' R100RS
14' R nineT

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george baker
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Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby george baker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:34 am

Hi
sounds like a good plan

Somewhere I am sure I have seen a set up guide, rake, trail, lead, lean etc to get the perfect setup for a particular speed/weight. It is imperfect of course, for every other speed, but the degree of imperfection is variable. I will see if I can find the document and if I do I will share it.

It seems to me the first essential is to get the chair, and then the fittings before you can move on.

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

Richard(Sande)Sanders
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Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby Richard(Sande)Sanders » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:05 pm

My current outfit is a K100RS with a Watsonian Monaco single seat chair. It has standard
forks, normal bike tyres fitted to the standard rims. The only changes made appear to be
wider higher bars & a steering damper. If you plan to use it with an empty chair, it may be
a good idea to add some weight to it, as single seat chairs are quite light & can lift quite
easily.
I've had an R75/6 & an R100RS fitted with chairs. I ran standard rims & tyres on both of
them, the R75 came with 15" rims & car tyres, but I didn't like the lowered gearing when
traveling at higher speeds. I'm not sure if the Avon sidecar tyres are still made.
You may need to change the rear shock depending on the usual weight that you will be
carrying, such as pillion/ chair passenger, luggage & wether you will tow a trailer frequently.

stevedowling1

Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby stevedowling1 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:46 pm

I've set up a few outfits and it seems to me that it all boils down to how fast you want to go. For absolute stability at high speeds (in excess of 70mph) use the standard forks. The long trail keeps the steering dead straight. The down side of this is that steering becomes heavier the faster you go because of the longer trail needed for solo bike stability so hurrying through roundabouts or extended high speed curves can be tiring. The best compromise will always be leading link forks with a damper to tame what can feel like very light and wayward steering. Incidentally, dampers are fitted to outfits with standard forks to control low speed steering shake which usually disappears at around 25 mph but I would avoid fitting one if possible because it exacerbates the heavy steering problem at higher speeds. Finally I'm not a fan of small wheels with car tyres. Had that setup on a K100 outfit and had problems with tramlining. Had to run the front tyre at what I would consider too low a pressure to overcome it.

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Tincan3
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Re: Advice for a beginner

Postby Tincan3 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:50 pm

Hi Mark,
Returning from a trip this September I met Eric Miazga in a French layby south of Calais. He is an acrobat and showman who has a routine with a Yamaha and sidecar called "sidecar basket". It is quite inspiring/amazing to see what he can do with his outfit. There are several pieces on Youtube worth a look.
His website is: http://www.katuvu.net/
My combination has standard wheels on the R75/6 bike and a 19" WM2 rim on the sidecar wheel taking a 350x19" tyre. I also fitted a 350x19" tyre to the front instead of the standard 325x19". I have had it up to an indicated 80 mph which felt a bit too fast but 70 mph on motorways is not a problem though the engine feels more comfortable cruising around an indicated 60 mph.
Cornering too enthusiastically on hairpins this summer I pulled the sidecar tyre inner tube valve a bit causing a slow-ish puncture. However it turned out the tyre was under inflated (c 28 psi) for that kind of enthusiasm. On close inspection my regular tyre pressure guage reads 2 or 3 psi high - not good! Now replaced with a neat tyre service kit from Vintage Tyres.


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