clutchless up changes without quickshifter

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Gareth
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clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:33 pm

Hello – new member here.

I currently own an FZS1000 (Fazer1000) that I bought new in 2004. I’ve not bought any other bikes since – so I figure I can justify a new machine.
I test rode an MT10 last year – it was a bit wild and wanted to pull wheelies all the time, plus it has a serious thirst for unleaded.
I then tried the new CB1000R – It’s a fine bike, but I just didn’t connect with it.

I’d read some good things about the new R1250R. So I figured I may as well give it a bash. Didn’t think I would like it, but you know what, I thought it was fantastic. It really surprised me.

So, I’m trying to spec my bike, and hopefully I’ll have an order in soon and be on the road come the spring.

Now the MT10 I rode had a quick shifter. I never use the clutch on my old Fazer for up changes, so I found myself fighting with the quick shifter on the MT10. I’m just hard wired to snap the throttle closed and open again on up shifts which upset the MT10’s quick shifter. But towards the end of the test I was starting to get the hang of it, though I found the device somewhat crude – it did not impress me.

The CB1000R didn’t have a quick shifter but was happy going up the box without the clutch – bliss.

When I test rode the R1250R I asked them if they could disable the quick shifter but they said this was not possible and told me just to use the clutch – they didn’t seem to understand when I tried to explain to them that I never use the clutch for up changes other than from 1st to 2nd.
Further I found the BMW quick shifter somewhat crude, but if I rolled off the throttle a tad when up changing it was as smooth as my trusty old Fazer. So what’s the point of a quick-shifter?

So the BMW quick shifter is a 405 quid option……
And to the point! Will a modern BMW boxer – without a quick-shifter - up change sweetly without using the clutch just like any Japanese bike.
I don’t want to fork over 400 quid for a quick-shifter I don’t need. But nor do I want to pick up a new R1250R and discover the boxer does not like clutchless up changes.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby King Herald » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:34 am

My ‘97 1100r Oilhead will upshift fairly smoothly without the clutch, but it’s not in the same league as a Jap bike for gearbox function. I don’t do it very often. It’s not a race rep, no need for super quick shifting.

Downshifting is a different story though..... [-( Very agricultural and crude. Careful balancing of engine speed, blipping throttle etc can make it smooth, but not very often. It’s an intrinsic part of the design that BMW managed to cock up completely, engine speed single plate clutch doesn’t help either.

I recently bought a Honda Transalp, can’t believe how sweet the gearbox is.

I had a ‘90 Harley Sportster for a while, and even that could upshift smoothly just by pushing on the gear lever, back the throttle off a tiny bit, snicks into gear smoothly etc. When I did the first oil change bits of metal came out though.....
1997 BMW R1100R
1993 Honda Transalp 600

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george baker
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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby george baker » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:06 pm

Hi
welcome to the forum
George
Member 21, R100R, and an under used K75

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Mike D » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:32 pm

If the quick shifter is an optional extra, why not just go to a dealer who has a non quick shift model to test ride?

Mike

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:26 pm

I think you'll find that there is no comparison between an old oilhead BMW and a new R1250R.
The new bike is water cooled and has an integral gearbox complete with wet, multi-plate clutch. It is therefore much closer to your old Fazer than BMWs prior to 2013.
I would advise having a search for a bike which doesn't have the quick-shifter fitted to be sure that you're happy with it, but my guess is that it would be fine for you.
On the other hand, the quick-shifter works really well when you get used to it (up and down) and the bike might be easier to sell when the time comes .....
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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:38 pm

Hmm, I had to google that to see what this "quickshifter" thing is.

It's like my Smart car :) That does the same thing every time you request a gear change either in auto or manual mode. Smart car also changes the gears though, no relying on ones foot to do the mechanical work.

Seems to me that if you want to ride a bike then buy a bike. If you want a invalid carriage then buy one.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm

..... Seems to me that if you want to ride a bike then buy a bike. If you want a invalid carriage then buy one.
.
I'm guessing you've never ridden a R1250R - with or without a quick-shifter. They are quick and, I'm prepared to bet, a great deal more exciting than an invalid carriage :smile: .

My car has a DSG gearbox - normally used in automatic, but can be used in "manual" to change up or down using paddles on the steering column or the gear lever.
In neither mode does it resemble the quick-shifter on my R1200RT. The quick-shifter just allows part or full throttle, medium or full rev up-changes without the clutch or changing throttle position. It's not necessary, but most people get used to using it and like it (although you can continue to change up "conventionally", i.e. using the clutch and matching revs with the throttle, if you wish). I can also change down without using the clutch or matching revs with the throttle.
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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby King Herald » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:49 pm

Seems to me that if you want to ride a bike then buy a bike. If you want a invalid carriage then buy one.

American gear head friend of mine, regarding cars with auto boxes: you drive a manual car, you ride in an automatic.... :grin:

Gogs01, And good to hear BMW have moved on from those agricultural tractor gearboxes they used to fit. 8-[
1997 BMW R1100R
1993 Honda Transalp 600

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:13 pm

Thanks for all the replies!
welcome to the forum
Thank-you George.
If the quick shifter is an optional extra, why not just go to a dealer who has a non quick shift model to test ride?
That would be nice. But the demo models are loaded with options – the one I rode had had almost the full options list thrown at it. Some of it nice, some of it pure mince. There’s pretty much almost zero chance of finding a demo bike without a quick shifter. It’s also really annoying that it can’t be disabled via the bikes ‘menus’.
The new bike is water cooled and has an integral gearbox complete with wet, multi-plate clutch. It is therefore much closer to your old Fazer than BMWs prior to 2013.
That’s sounds very reassuring.
I'm guessing you've never ridden a R1250R - with or without a quick-shifter. They are quick and, I'm prepared to bet, a great deal more exciting than an invalid carriage :smile: .
Fae Dundee eh? Yeah it’s seriously rapid. Maybe not quite as rapid as my old lightly tuned Fazer thou – but then the Fazer needs to be wound up a good bit. The 1250R takes off like shite of a shovel right fae tickover – it’s a seriously torquey engine. I was far from convinced I would like the R1250R, but after my disappointment with both the MT10 and the CB1000RR, well I was blown away by the BMW.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby farzad » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:02 pm

These days I'm riding a R1200RT watercooled with quickshifter.
There was no quickshifter on my 2 previous RT's but I had no problem upshifting without a clutch.
With my present bike, I find using the quickshifter a lot of fun, as you can just keep the throutle open while blipping through the gears...reaching warp speed very quickly indeed :-)
However sometimes I upshift like the old bikes and have not experienced any problems.
2016 R1200RT LE
2012 R1200RT SE
2007 R1200RT SE

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:02 am

These days I'm riding a R1200RT watercooled with quickshifter.
There was no quickshifter on my 2 previous RT's but I had no problem upshifting without a clutch.
With my present bike, I find using the quickshifter a lot of fun, as you can just keep the throutle open while blipping through the gears...reaching warp speed very quickly indeed :-)
However sometimes I upshift like the old bikes and have not experienced any problems.
.
Same here ! :thumbup:
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Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:22 pm

Cheers.
I've placed an order for a new R1250R
Gone for the following,

Dynamic ESA
Daytime Riding Light
Heated Grips
Tyre Pressure monitor
Cruise Control
Centre Stand
Valve Cover Guard

I've also ordered an SC Project X-Plorer end can
Plus need to order Givi Rack and box

I've skipped the quick shifter. Going by what you guys are saying she should upshift without the clutch. So don't see the point in paying 400 quid for something that I can achieve by a quick dip of the throttle. And on the test ride I found the quick shifter crude and the auto blipper, I'm afraid - nasty.

Just got to wait patiently now. Should get it mid march - and then just need half decent weather.

Oh, by the way, the tracker is now standard fitment with 12mnths subsciption included. No idea what the charge is outside of that 1st year.

Thanks again!

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:25 pm

See if I can post an image of the SC Project can;

Image

Looks nicer than the BMW Akra offering, and much more affordable.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:04 pm


Cheers.
I've placed an order for a new R1250R
Gone for the following,

Dynamic ESA
Daytime Riding Light
Heated Grips
Tyre Pressure monitor
Cruise Control
Centre Stand
Valve Cover Guard

I've also ordered an SC Project X-Plorer end can
Plus need to order Givi Rack and box

I've skipped the quick shifter. Going by what you guys are saying she should upshift without the clutch. So don't see the point in paying 400 quid for something that I can achieve by a quick dip of the throttle. And on the test ride I found the quick shifter crude and the auto blipper, I'm afraid - nasty.

Just got to wait patiently now. Should get it mid march - and then just need half decent weather.

Oh, by the way, the tracker is now standard fitment with 12mnths subsciption included. No idea what the charge is outside of that 1st year.

Thanks again!


Lovely !
Hope you enjoy many happy miles on it. :thumbup:
Can we look forward to a "first ride" report - with pictures ? :grin:
Club member #480
Current BMW : 2017MY R1200RT LE in Platinum Bronze :smile:
Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:17 pm

Cheers Gogs01
Had a two hour test ride last summer - so got a fair idea of what to expect.
My brain said, save some cash and pick up a nice mint R1200R, but naw my heart said just get the new R1250R.
The only used stock at the mo in R1250Rs seems to be ex demo and promo bikes. They pretty much all have had the full options catalogue thrown at them, and the dealers seem to think every single option adds value.

I just went only for options that are desirable to me. So paid around what they were asking for their ex-demo model for my new one.

When I decided I was gonna look at getting a new bike last year, I didn't think I'd end up with a BMW. :shock: Mind you I did turn 50 the other year - so maybe it's time for a boxer O:)

Yup will let you know how I get on when she arrives. She's just a build number at the moment.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby farzad » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm

Congratulations
Bit of a long wait, but at least this crap weather makes it a bit more bearable 😀
I'm sure you will enjoy every mile.
2016 R1200RT LE
2012 R1200RT SE
2007 R1200RT SE

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:58 pm

Thanks farzad.

So ordered my SC Project can.
Need to order my Givi plate and top box.

And so are there any must have, or highly recommended accessories. And remember I’m new to BMW and boxers.
I am wondering if the following would be useful;

Wunderlich Tornado Protector Hub Cover
Wunderlich Paralever slider
Evotech Radiator guard

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:24 am

..... are there any must have, or highly recommended accessories. And remember I’m new to BMW and boxers .....
.
How about a big fairing with an electrically adjustable screen ? Then you could call it an RT ! 👌 😊
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Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:53 pm

Naw, don't fancy the electrically adjustable barn door.
Screen wise I'll see how she goes. But on my teat ride, in the middle of summer, I didn't find the lack of any sort of screen an issue, didn't feel any great wind blast up to 80mph. Though found it a real battle just to stay on board above 130mph :shock:

Maybe I should start a new thread on this.....

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:26 am

Bike was delivered just over a month ago. Only problem now is getting out on it. But at least I get to ride it to work.

Glad I didn’t spec the quickshifter. The modern boxer gear box is indeed sweet as a nut. I only use the clutch between 1st and 2nd going up the box.

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:33 am

Image

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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby gogs01 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:26 pm

That's a cracking looking bike !

All other things being equal, I wouldn't spec a quick shifter for my next bike. I feel I have more mechanical sympathy than my quick shifter does .....
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Re: clutchless up changes without quickshifter

Postby Gareth » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:18 am

I feel I have more mechanical sympathy than my quick shifter does
Absolutely. I thought it was crude in comparison to a manual clutchless change. On my test ride I ended up compensating for it by dipping the throttle slightly – so what’s the point?
On the test bike, I tried the clutchless downchange only twice – I thought it was dreadful.


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